#28 (Spotlight) - You Can Either Complain or Change — with Jessica Harling

Some people get into business because they love the work — they're great with their hands, they can produce something beautiful — but the business side feels like a foreign language. Other folks come straight out of Corporate America loaded with business knowledge but couldn't install a blind to save their life. Most of us are missing something.

This week, Roger sits down with Jessica Harling of Behind the Design to talk about how you fill in the gaps you didn't even know you had.

Jessica's a fourth-generation member of a family design business that's been running since 1936 — and she's spent the last decade helping flooring, furniture, window covering, and interior design companies fix the two things that quietly hold them back: people problems and process problems.

In this conversation, Roger and Jessica get into:

• Why so many business owners are brilliant at their craft but stuck on the business itself
• The "easy industry" myth — and why everyone who believes it changes their mind in about 90 days
• How a former teacher and theater kid ended up coaching design-trade companies (and why observation is an underrated business skill)
• What a 30-day company audit actually uncovers when an outsider looks in
• Why creative breaks and stepping away aren't slacking off — they're how you actually solve the problem
• And the one piece of advice from Jessica's 101-year-old great-grandmother that's worth the whole episode: "You can either complain or change. Those are your choices — and it's in your control."

If you've ever felt like you've hit a ceiling you can't explain, this one's for you.

🎯 A Word About Jessica's Work — Behind the Design

If anything Jessica said hit a little too close to home — that's not an accident. Behind the Design exists for the business owner who's great at the work but knows, deep down, that something in the running of the company isn't clicking.

Their tagline says it best: rock solid operations, rockstar culture. And the way they get you there comes down to three things:

• Recruit — Done searching for a rockstar in a stack of résumés? They help you attract real design and trade talent — installers, project managers, salespeople.
• Train — Onboarding feeling overwhelming? They transfer knowledge faster so your people actually succeed in their roles.
• Refine — Are your processes running you? They build systems that actually work — documenting your procedures, streamlining your software, and dusting off the cobwebs that are quietly costing you.

And it works. One client, Pamela Cole of Ampersand Design Group, says they turned 9-10 month projects into 3-4 months. Another, Rick Baker of Galaxy Draperies, called it a process problem they didn't know they had — until Behind the Design documented the whole thing and helped them grow fast.

Not sure where your bottleneck actually is? Start with their free People or Process assessment — a quick way to identify the issue and get one step closer to fixing it.

👉 Learn more and book a free consult at GoBehindTheDesign.com 📍 Chicago, IL · 📞 (847) 986-9168 Find them on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube @GoBehindTheDesign

If you're tired of complaining about the same problem — maybe it's time to change it.

#NoStringsAttached #WindowTreatments #InteriorDesign #SmallBusiness #FamilyBusiness #BehindTheDesign

🎙️ No Strings Attached — with Roger Magalhães 

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Transcript

Why Skill Does Not Equal Business

Roger Magalhaes 0:00

Sometimes people go into business because they love what they do, they just don't have a clue about running a business. Sometimes it's the opposite. People come from Corpor America with a lot of business knowledge, but not knowing how to do things with their own hands or the knowledge they need to produce something nice. Today's show we are going to discover how you can complement the part that you are lacking of after this.

Intro / Outro 0:43

Welcome to No Strings Attached, the place where we untangle honest conversations about business, reinvention, and the pursuit of the American dream. Hosted by Roger Migales, Brazilian-born, Boston-bred, Florida-based. He is an entrepreneur, speaker, and storyteller with 20 years of real stories, laughs, and screw-ups. This show is for anyone still searching for their place under the sun. So pull up the chair. The show is about to start. Here's Roger with no strings attached.

Meet Jessica And Her Mission

Roger Magalhaes 1:16

Welcome to another show of No Strings Attached. My name is Roger McGallis and I am your host. If this is your first time here, welcome to the show. And if you have been here before, welcome back. Today I am interviewing Jessica Harling. She is the owner of Behind the Design in Chicago. She is also a partner at Exciting Windows. She just announced that. She brings a lot of knowledge in the industry, her family being business for four generations. However, the way she does is different. She specializes in helping other dealers figuring out what's wrong with their operations. And she also brings talented people to help you grow your company. If she is small or large, she can help you in different capacities. She has a background in teaching and also in performing. And because she is used to deal with people and emotions, she can sense well what's going on. Without further ado, enjoy Jessica. Thanks again. And I'd like to start Jessica with a 30-second elevator pitch. So if you meet someone as you're waiting for the elevator, so what would you tell them you do about your profession?

Jessica Harling 3:09

Yeah, we fix people and process problems, and we do that in three different ways through recruiting top talents, training them to be successful in their role, and developing processes so they stay with you long term and can turn productivity into profit.

Roger Magalhaes 3:26

Okay, but if I don't know what you do, you fix people's problem in any industry, or are you a psychologist?

Jessica Harling 3:38

Sometimes it feels that way. Right. In the the window covering and the interior design trade. So we've worked with flooring companies, furniture companies, window covering companies, interior designers, anyone that really has a service that they install in a design capacity. We've been worked commercial and residentially, but we love the world of design. So we're helping them with really the whole process of their business. It could be sales, it could be financial, it could be software, it could be marketing, could be process operations. There's a whole lot.

Roger Magalhaes 4:16

So I have a business and I'm struggling with process and people. So you help me out figuring that out or kind of uh find the key people to help me grow my business. Is that what it is?

Jessica Harling 4:33

Yeah, there's essentially two areas. We either are gonna do it for you or we're gonna teach you how to do it. So, from a recruiting perspective, that might be finding you an installer, that might be finding you a project manager or salesperson, but it also could be restructuring your company. Maybe you are a five million dollar company and you've been hitting a certain tier that you can't get past. And sometimes that requires a company restructure. So outlining job descriptions and what their performance should look like within each of their roles and teaching you how to navigate those conversations with the team. So that's on the people side, but on the process side, you know, if it's either teaching you or doing it for you, it might be connecting you to the right partners in your business. You know, if you need a website redesign, we've got plenty of resources to get you connected, or we might be setting up your software, writing your procedures, doing the work to help you implement your goals.

Roger Magalhaes 5:37

So it if I hire you to do that for me, is that temporary, or you're just gonna become part of my long-term process? What is it?

The Six Month Fix And Company Audit

Jessica Harling 5:48

Yeah. Well, it certainly feels like we become part of your team. Um, but it's we work in six-month increments. So over the course of six months, we'll work on two to three projects. And those three projects could be like hiring a person, writing your procedure manuals, and optimizing your software. And so in each of those six months, we work on those implementations that will help you towards your goals. But at the end of six months, you can say, Yeah, this is great, this is helping, we're growing, let's keep doing this. Or I need to pause because wow, we need to take a break and just do the things that you just told us to do.

Roger Magalhaes 6:28

Sure. And from talking to many people, a lot of people don't really understand the business side of business, they are really good at doing things, or you know, their father did it, or their husband started, they kind of joined, but they don't really have a business background to truly understand all the little silos inside the company, how they all work together, right? So you're you're coming in, you really point things out to them that I probably they never thought about it before, right?

Jessica Harling 7:06

Exactly. That's what our first 30 days looks like. It's an analysis of their company. We actually go through every aspect and analyze what's doing well, what's doing poorly, what needs immediate change so that they can get to their goals. So it's you know an outside look in at what you may be too close to to see yourself.

Roger Magalhaes 7:30

Mm-hmm. And it it is very interesting because I never heard of anything doing exactly what you're doing for industry in particular. I I know business people uh business consultants that help, but they're not really industry specific. Yours is more industry specific for our trade or for the industry for the design industry, correct?

Jessica Harling 7:59

Correct. Yeah. My great-grandfather started a design business in 1936, it's still around today. So I'm fourth generation in the family business uh that has done paper, uh paint, wallpaper, window coverings, interior design furnishings over the course of 85 plus years. And so a lot of my experience and background comes from that family business, but also since consulting since 2012, I've worked with hundreds of country companies across the country doing this business specifically for the design trades. And I saw time after time going to conferences and talking to people and stuff, there was always this really big focus on sales and marketing, you know, because of course we want to grow our companies. So that's the flashy stuff. Like let's get sales, let's get leads and all this stuff. But what really came down to the problems were how do I find people and keep them? And how do I keep them learning and growing? And how, if I do have a lot of sales, how do I keep up with that? You know, what are my processes? What are my softwares? So those were all the questions that I was always able to answer. And it just kind of was born out of the challenge.

Roger Magalhaes 9:18

All right, you you beat me to it because I was gonna say, how did you get into the business? Well, you already told you you're fourth generation and your grandpa started, so you kind of saw these early on, right? So, do do did you ever work in a different industry? Do you have a different background, like from going to college to do some something completely different, and then you came back? What is it?

Jessica Harling 9:45

Yeah, I had two other lives, Roger. I uh before I got in this industry, I was a teacher, K through eights. I was in the arts, so I was teaching art, music, theater for grade schoolers. And the program that I taught in was when schools had cut funding for their arts. I came in, my company came in and would bridge between their core classes like math and reading and the arts to provide some value where they had lost funding and couldn't afford to provide the arts to their students. So I've always been in a teaching mode since school. And even in school, I was a theater kid. So from out of college, I opened my own theater, and we did a lot of shows every year up until the pandemic. So I've had lots of lives.

Roger Magalhaes 10:38

Yeah. So given that you had a different life, as you said, what is there anything that your other life helped you in doing what you're doing now? Is there anything that you learned from acting, from teaching people to act that help you in doing what you're doing now?

Jessica Harling 11:05

Yeah, I think it's I love that question. I I think it boils down to two things. From an acting perspective, they teach you the art of observation and learning people and their nuances. And literally, our homework in school was to go and sit in a park or sit at a zoo and just watch people, watch their interactions with their kids, or you know, if they're they're busy on their way to work, you know, what's their body language doing and how are they acting? And so I've always been very attuned to that observation, which allows me now to see things sometimes that are in front of everyone's faces, but it's it's too much to see, you know, that whole like force through the trees thing. I I can take a step back. But because of my teaching background, you know, at our business now, one of our core values is educate. And I do believe in educating others and giving back to the community in that way because my grandpa did that. He was a board member of the WCAA and he had a lot of people he helped and coached through this industry. So kind of taking that forward, and my passion for teaching allows me to teach others, you know, why did my family's business be so successful over the last four generations? How can I forward that and pave the path for others?

Roger Magalhaes 12:35

That's really great because as you teach someone, and I'm speaking from my own experience, you you're telling the installer you gotta do this way, and you explain why, and they're just nodding, they understand. But the reality, they just don't want to say, I still need a little more guidance because I don't truly know what you're saying, or I don't truly feel confident about these. So being a teacher, you kind of sense that when you talk to these people, right, about their business, you gotta go this way. They say, Oh, yeah, yeah. But in reality, I don't think they're truly agreeing with you, or that maybe they are being afraid, right?

Jessica Harling 13:21

Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, I'm a big believer in questions are a good thing. You know, we somehow learn growing up that asking a question can sometimes be stupid, or we asked it too many times, or we're annoying. But I think the complete opposite of that. I feel that questions show someone that you're engaged, that you're curious, that you're learning. And if you're not asking questions and you're a know it all, well, then what am I here for? So it is about someone being able to grow and learn. And if you're not asking questions, you'll never, you'll never grow.

Roger Magalhaes 13:56

Yeah, I I get all the time. I was always the annoying kid in the classroom because I always ask questions. I'm too uh uh too curious, you know, and and people I have a stupid question, so then not really, it's not stupid because it could be the same question other people have, but they're just too shy to ask, right?

Jessica Harling 14:22

Yeah, exactly.

Roger Magalhaes 14:24

And speaking about questions, and you talk to different people, you talk to new people to the industry when you're training them and and everything, what is one misconcept or misunderstanding that people have about our industry?

Jessica Harling 14:45

Oh my gosh, Roger.

Roger Magalhaes 14:46

Just one.

Jessica Harling 14:47

Every single class I've ever taught, someone, every single one is like a hundred percent close rate on this. Every single class, someone says to me, I got in this industry because I think it's easy. And I'm like, Oh, okay, talk to me in 90 days. Let me know how easy you think the quoting is, the installation is, the sales of it is like, yeah, if you got in this for ease, this is the wrong industry for you.

Roger Magalhaes 15:17

Yeah, I I joke with Julie Murphy all the time. If people uh just knew 10% of the details that is involved in this business, it would have changed a different career. Not exactly the window treatment industry at all. You know what I mean? Unbelievable, yeah.

Jessica Harling 15:37

The amount of details really complex for I don't even know what reason.

Roger Magalhaes 15:41

The the you know, if you just account uh let's just stick to hard treatments, right? Not even gonna go into draperies, yeah. 10 different products, I mean blind shades, blind swallow shades, you know, silhouettes, whatever, times 10 different control systems, times different fabrics, times inside outside. Unbelievable. Seriously, you can have 50 different options per window.

Jessica Harling 16:15

Yeah, and then layer in the emotion of the customers, their opinions, their questions, their translations, HD TV shows me this way.

Roger Magalhaes 16:26

Why do I need to go the other route?

Jessica Harling 16:28

Exactly.

Roger Magalhaes 16:29

It's unbelievable, yes. So, having said that, it's not as simple as it looks. If you have to start over again, would you pick this industry? Or you would you go someplace else and say, you know what? I had my time, my grandpa did well, I did well, but I need a new start, or would you stay?

Jessica Harling 18:27

I would definitely choose this industry again for a couple of reasons. One, growing up, I had always this feeling that this was going to be a future of mine. You know, I always thought I was gonna be on the red carpet and all the things, and that this would be what I fall back on when you know celebrity has fizzled out. Sure, you know, might have to be the opposite now, but I definitely love the people. I love the fact that I can use my skills of theater to speak and train and get to know people and how they tick and how they are motivated and how I can actually help them. I really truly feel I can help. And that's always been a huge motivator as a teacher for me.

Roger Magalhaes 19:15

Yeah. Well, in a way, you're still a celebrity because all these people are waiting for you when you show up to teach them, you know, pointed out things that need to be improved and kind of teach them their new roles.

Jessica Harling 19:29

Yes.

Roger Magalhaes 19:31

So, how you see yourself 15, 20 years from now in the industry?

Jessica Harling 19:37

Well, I feel like I'm gonna be very integrated in a lot of different businesses.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Okay.

Jessica Harling 19:43

I we uh behind the design have a goal to create a TV show out of the work that we're doing, speaking of HGTV. Um, yeah, and so that's something that we're actively working towards to kind of expand. You know, there's so many different bar rescue, kitchen nightmares, like there, there's all these big shows out there, but what about the sector of design? And what about family businesses that are, you know, 90% of our economy is built on family businesses, is revenue generated from family businesses. So it's such an impact to be able to do that work and be able to expand it to a larger audience. It's a huge driver for us, but in that, being able to have some type of education platform in the next 15, 20 years, having you know, being involved in a lot of different boards and ways that I can give back and educate the industry.

Creativity, Breaks, And Better Thinking

Roger Magalhaes 20:44

That's really cool. As as I said, there's a lot of people that get into this industry that have no clue about business, you know, or maybe they were in corporate America and they get laid off, or you know, they already retired or whatever, and they did that time doing whatever they did, and now they join this industry without really knowing about business. So if you create a show and point things out, it's going to educate a lot of people. This is a great initiative.

Jessica Harling 21:22

That's what I'm hoping for.

Roger Magalhaes 21:24

That's great, though. So, besides work, and you said you have another life besides what you do. What do you like? You like to travel, you like to eat? What is it?

Jessica Harling 21:39

Well, certainly all the above. I'm very big into travel and always do at least one big trip every year to explore. But day to day, every week I go dancing. Right now, I'm learning a little bit of rumba and the Viennese waltz. But I go back doing swing dancing for a long time and just love that as an outlet. Um, I just did some painting project for my aunt and uncle, taking back, you know, my high school and college days of being in art and stuff. So I try to keep creative, and when I get a block, I'll try to go to a show or a comedy sketch and try to kind of break up that those creative juices again.

Roger Magalhaes 22:22

Yeah, that's really great. So for the longest time, I was pretty much just working and take a six-hour nap in between and then back to work again. Yeah, but one of my goals was moving to Florida and kind of smell the roses a little bit, yeah. So in doing that, my and and I love writing. So in doing that, I feel like the writing just flourished naturally because you step away from all the things that kind of consume you for the most part. Uh it's funny sometimes I'm just on the weekend at the beach or even driving, and out of the blue, this idea pops up in my head just because I guess I'm refreshed and I'm not kind of not in constant mode thinking about work. Is that the same thing with you? Do you feel you get creative when those breaks happen or when you go to a show or go travel? Oh, I just got an idea for my. Next business, you know, does it happen to you?

Jessica Harling 23:36

Oh, totally. I mean, I it's funny, especially in shows in particular. If I'm ever in New York, I have to go to a Broadway show. Like it's it's just a calling, it just has to happen. Yeah. And it's maybe too much information, but I sit and I cry during the show, and it's just this release of like joy and like emotion. And by the end of the show, I'm like, I firing on all these cylinders. I've got all these thousand different ideas, and you know, it just allows your brain to decompress all of the thoughts that go on constantly. I mean, I heard something like you have something in the line of five to ten thousand thoughts a day or something, and a lot of it is just happening without your intention, and that's what I feel like after those moments. It just allows the floodgates to open, but also get clarity, not like an overwhelmingness of I don't know what to do. It's almost like you know, the the lights all shine on one spotlight, and it's like, yes, okay, this is the idea that I needed this whole time.

Roger Magalhaes 24:46

Yeah, I feel like we let the guards down, and now those nice thoughts, ideas, they just can't come in because you put your guards down. And before you are in working mode, you pretty much have your guards high, and those things just bounce back and don't let you flourish, you know. So I saw many, you know, CEOs. I I I love the business side of things. CEOs taking time off to think about and see, and and I'm thinking, why do you need to take time off? You need to be in the problem to understand. And now I realize you need to step away in order to see what's going on, exactly.

Jessica Harling 25:30

Exactly. Well, even in teaching, they tell you that you're not supposed to teach someone for more than two hour segments, and even at that, it's a lot that you have to take brain breaks every one and a half to two hours because it's just too much information. So it's the same thing working. If you're working six hours straight with no breaks, you're not giving any brain breaks, and you're you're creating that wall like you're talking about.

Complain Or Change Then Take Action

Roger Magalhaes 25:53

It's funny, you just you just said about the teacher, and it got right back to me. Even installing, I'm in the middle of an install, and the install doesn't work, or the motor doesn't respond. Uh, you know, you kind of spend 15, 20, 30 minutes trying to figure it out and just sweating, and nothing goes. I just step out, have uh, you know, a drink of water, kind of deep breath, and next thing you know, you go back in and you didn't do anything, you just put oxygen in your brain, I guess. Right, and now you figure things out. It's kind of it's incredible how a little break makes all the difference. Yeah, absolutely right. Yeah, now again, I appreciate you sharing all this information and all your journey, everything you do, and all of that. If we go back to your 30-second elevator pitch, what would you tell this person that you just met now? Would you tell the exact same thing? Would you based on this conversation do we have, do we change anything? How you explain what you do to them?

Jessica Harling 27:04

That's a good question. If it was just a straight up pitch, yeah, I would probably get it the same, but I do like if I can to learn the person before I tell them anything about myself because that would change what I would say. You know, I would focus on your ability to be in the field all the time and what your needs would be there versus someone that might be behind a computer all day.

Roger Magalhaes 27:30

Right, right, right, right. That's great. Now, uh, as we getting close to the end of our interview, I always asking people to leave something for the people they are listening. So what thought would you leave then with? Could be business, could be personal, could be nothing. You you tell me what do you want people to remember about this conversation?

Jessica Harling 27:59

It would be a little bit personal and and business. I uh my great-grandmother, one of the founders of my family business, she lived to be 101. And wow, in her hundredth birthday, we were celebrating. There was this interview that the news did with her and her husband. And the interviewer asked her, you know, in the the years that it's been starting the business, what do you think their business success has been? You know, what advice would they give people? And she said, back in like 1940, it's amazing. She said, You can either complain or change. Those are your choices and it's in your control. And when I listened to that, this is years ago, I was like, Oh my god, you're you're so right, great grandma Jody. You're so right. Those are your two options. You can complain about your situation, or you can make a change about your situation, and that simple motto has stuck with me for years.

Roger Magalhaes 29:05

A hundred percent. I cannot agree more. That's how I joke with you know what a lot of people when I get to a job site, say how's things? Uh Rod, and I say everything's fine, but even if I complain, nobody cares. So it doesn't make sense to complain because nobody really is gonna stop doing what they're doing to help you out. So it's better if you just change and move forward than just sit and complain, right?

Jessica Harling 29:34

Well, and everyone needs a pity party every now and then, but don't sit there for too long, you know, address it and say, okay, what can we learn from this? What's the silver lining? What do we need to change to get a different outcome next time? And it is in your control, you know, not every single thing in the world, but that choice at least is in your control.

Roger Magalhaes 29:54

Absolutely. Jessica, always a pleasure talking to you. I always learning something, and looking forward to seeing you at IWC uh in two weeks.

Intro / Outro 30:04

Likewise. And that's a wrap for today. Hope you're leaving with something that sticks. If this episode resonated, please share it with someone who needs to hear it. For more information, follow Roger at RogerMegalis.com and find the link in the show notes for a free chapter of his book, Nobody Told Me That. We'll see you next Sunday with no strings attached.